Thousands of Afghans are being resettled around the world. What should we know about them?
An Afghan boy perched on an abandoned tank overlooking Kabul
Read or listen to Fouad Masri’s interview with Matt and Ruth, a couple who spent five years in Afghanistan. Conducted in October of 2021, the interview includes first-hand accounts of Afghan culture and guidance on how (and how not) to serve refugees. (Text edited for length and clarity).
Fouad Masri: At Crescent project, we're getting questions about Afghan refugees and ministry to refugees from different countries. And today this is something we need to be prepared for. We need to get ready, not only to welcome, but to able to minister to the heart of these refugees.
Today I have a great interview with my friends, Matt and Ruth, who served in Afghanistan.
Matt and Ruth, we so appreciate your ministry in Afghanistan. It's a joy to see people like you move away from their home to build another home among people who've never heard the good news.
Tell me a little bit what drew you to choose Afghanistan?
Matt: So back when I was in college, I really felt [00:01:00] this deep desire to serve among the Muslim people. And a lot of that was about that they really didn't have the opportunity to hear the gospel, to read the word of God.
And as we got married and started serving together at a church, we just felt drawn to Afghanistan and to serve among the people there who had suffered so much. They have been through so many years of war, suffered under the Taliban, and we just felt deeply that we wanted to be able to bring the Shalom that God has, and to be able to share that with them.
“Afghans have been through so many years of war, suffered under the Taliban, and we felt deeply that we wanted to bring the Shalom that God has.”
Ruth: So my story is a little different. I didn't grow up in the church. I met God when I was in college and very soon afterwards, he started drawing me towards becoming involved in ministry and war relief and development.[00:02:00]
And at that time I got involved a lot with local ministries that were doing disaster relief, but my heart was always to deal with issues of war and violence and see how I might be a part of building peace in the midst of that. And as I learned more about God and learn more about peace building work, it was obvious that the gospel had to be a part of that.
And also just looking at the world in where the church has been involved and. Working hard to bring peace. The Muslim world has been neglected for so long and at that time it was very, very neglected. And I just felt like if I was willing to go anywhere, then I needed to be really willing to go anywhere.
“I just felt like if I was willing to go anywhere, then I needed to be really willing to go anywhere.”
And God really put the Afghan people on my heart and the issues of poverty and injustice that, that were part of the story of that country.
Fouad Masri: This is so impactful, that you looked at Afghanistan as a place where the [00:03:00] Shalom, the peace of Christ is the core, and then helping the physical needs, the economic needs.
This is something that comes out of our compassion. If you love Jesus, you have compassion for others. I mean, there's so much devastation for years; first the Russians, and then the ISIS and Al-Qaeda and all that mess.
How long did you stay? I know you both come from different cultural background. So how long did you stay in Afghanistan?
Schoolgirls in the streets of Kabul
Ruth: We were there just over five years, which really in the grand scheme of ministry in Afghanistan, we had a lot of people on our team that had served 10, 20, 30 years in the country.
So we don't consider ourselves experts. But still, as somebody from a Western culture entering into that culture, we can at least speak a little bit about what it is to be switching cultures between those two places, that are just so vastly different from each other.
Fouad Masri: Can you share a little bit what issues you noticed in connecting with different cultures? [00:04:00]
Ruth: For me, I think the biggest part was actually trying to learn how to communicate in Dari with the people from different places, because even people that were working together on the same team, their dialects of Dari were so different from each other that sometimes they needed to have interpreters amongst themselves!
So that was, right off the bat, one of the first things I experienced with that diversity that is in Afghanistan, is just the linguistic variation across the country.
Matt: Some things that really struck us is just so many differences from our Western culture. They're so much more focused on relationship.
You know, here in America, you've got a task. You've got to get your task done. [00:05:00] And that's your focus. There, it's all about being in relationship. You may have a task, but the relationship comes first.
One day I was coming home from work and there was a big traffic jam in front of me. And I was like trying to turn left into my street and it's like, oh man, this is really bad.
It's just taking forever. And that's like, as I come up to the intersection, I see the traffic cop, who's supposed to be directing traffic, and he's not directing traffic. He's giving a big bear hug. The biggest bear hug I've ever seen to some friend, like they hadn't seen each other in years in the middle of all of this honking and all this traffic, there are these two Afghan men just greeting each other like, “Oh, it's so good to see you.”
That doesn't happen so much in America, but at the same time, it's very refreshing. That relationship just means so much.
“I see the traffic cop, who's supposed to be directing traffic, and he's not directing traffic. He's giving a big bear hug.”
Fouad Masri: And probably it's a blessing that there was traffic because it's [00:06:00] showing his friend, “Look how much honor I'm giving you! There's a traffic jam in your name when you're present here!”
Matt: Yes!
Fouad Masri: I know people who are watching from other Western cultures, they understand the idea that friendship, relationship, is more important than the task. It's so true. It's exciting to see how Afghans value community.
What else did you notice about the culture that was kind of fun to connect with the Afghan people?
Matt: I think one thing we really enjoyed was their hospitality. Food is a really important part of their culture. They really love their food, rice, and kebab and all kinds of fresh fruit and they just – every holiday, they love having people over. They'll have their whole floor covered with food, waiting for guests to come.
Ruth: There is a tablecloth on the floor. It's not like they're eating off the floor, but that's the usual place to eat.
Fouad Masri: They don't use chairs. They sit on the [00:07:00] carpet.
Matt: That's right. And people come and you eat and you chat with the other people who are there and then you go to the next house and other people come.
A street scene in Kabul, taken in 2012
And so it's just these days of visiting and eating every holiday. And it's just a wonderful time to spend with each other and to get to know the diversity within different families that you meet, that we're connecting with.
One day, we went to one family. My wife walked away and disappeared with a little boy who took her to the women of the household. And I went with the men to another room and spent an hour there.
Later in the day we went to another household. All the men and women were sitting there together, the women with their headscarves off all chatting together. So just one day of great hospitality, but enormous difference in variety [00:08:00] too.
Ruth: And I think that's something that can't be overemphasized as the amount of diversity that there are amongst different peoples in Afghanistan.
“Something that can't be overemphasized is the amount of diversity that there are amongst different peoples in Afghanistan.”
Yes, you've got the different ethnic groups. You've got the different tribes within the ethnic groups. But education level, whether or not someone is from a city background or from a village background –there's just so much difference in terms of the way that a particular family will be structured and it really, really changes the way that you need to interact with.
So if a family is highly educated, maybe the Hazara and they're from the city and they're highly educated and they've worked for the development agencies for a long time, their gender relationships might seem very equitable compared to someone from the village that has thousands of years worth of culture dictating what their relationships should be like.
So much so [00:09:00] that there is no way that an unrelated man would be allowed in the home at all of the Afghan family. And it really takes just getting to know an individual family and individual people to know exactly what to expect.
Really it's about making that friendship and getting to know them and what they're comfortable with and what they're not comfortable with..
Fouad Masri: Thanks for highlighting this point. This is very important for us to notice that the Afghan country is made up of different tribes, different people groups, and you heard words like Hazara, Pashtun, different languages; but then on top of that, the level of education, the level of exposure to outside the country, the level of the work with different groups.
They're not all the same. They're not all the same [00:10:00] in their understanding of Islam or of culture.
And many times if they're educated and worked with NGOs or with the government, they have a different understanding of diversity, equity, and male/female relationships, how to talk to somebody from another culture.
And as Christ followers, this is very important to hear. We cannot think of them, of Afghan refugees, as one way, and communicate with all of them the same.
What are the difficulties you faced? What difficulties did you have with talking to the Afghan people, working with them, ministering to them?
Ruth: I was very much raised in a feminist household where it was [00:11:00] expectation that women and men could fulfill all the same rules in that we should not hold gender to account at all when we're looking at profession or what we are dreaming to do for, with our lives.
And so going to Afghanistan it was very much for me a desire to enter into that world of Afghan women.
But going and visiting Afghan women in their home, we ended up in those situations where it's like, “Okay, so have you ever worked outside the home? Have you ever gone to school?” “No, no.” So then the questions have to be like, “Okay, well, tell me about your children. Okay. Do you breastfeed?” Like very much just focused on child rearing and then telling stories about [00:12:00] children and family members. And that was a big shift for me mentally to enter into their world in that way.
But in that, I had teammates that were totally, “Please please come visit me more. I am not allowed to leave my yard. I haven't left my yard since I got married, please come and visit me because I'm lonely.”
This is the life of some Afghan women. And it's a matter of trying to figure out how to relate to where they're at because there are similarities. We have children, we raise children. We have concerns about their wellbeing.
We can talk about those things, and that crosses cultural and linguistic barriers like that.
A graveyard overlooking Herat in western Afghanistan
Matt: I think another big challenge for us is, was that before going to Afghanistan, we had never really experienced the kind of poverty and suffering that is there. You know, [00:13:00] we come both come from reasonably wealthy Western backgrounds and entering into their world, meant really being vulnerable and understanding that the kind of suffering that so many Afghans have experienced.
“Entering into their world meant really being vulnerable and understanding the kind of suffering that so many Afghans have experienced.”
Somebody mentioned earlier today, I don't like going to funerals. Well, that became kind of just a normal part of life, going to funerals for us there. That was a way that we, I felt like I really bonded with a lot of my Afghan coworkers and friends was going to funerals with them.
A young friend of mine lost his mother while we were there and going to his funeral and mourning with him was, was really difficult. But at the same time really was an important bond for us.
Fouad Masri: Thanks for sharing this friends. [00:14:00] Ruth, I appreciate you highlighting the stress on women.
My sisters, if you're watching this, this is our time to reach out to the Muslim woman, especially Afghan. You heard the word, the main word: they are lonely. They are seeking friendships, and Christ Jesus says if you visit people when they're in prison, when they are low, you minister to me.
And Matt, thanks for highlighting this, that sometimes just sitting still with someone, listening to them weep, or share their frustrations.
Many times, it’s not only community that they're looking for, they're looking for somebody, a listener, somebody to sit there, and you know, mourn with the mourning and be joyful with the joyful.
A lot of churches have been talking to Crescent project. We're helping now scores of churches and communities to navigate how to deal with the Afghan refugees. And we're hearing some things that gives me a red flag, like “are we doing this correctly?”
What would you recommend to churches and Christ followers who really want to do something with the refugees?
Ruth: So I would just keep in [00:16:00] mind that refugee resettlement in the U.S. Is really focused on self-sufficiency. The program demands a lot of the people involved.
They're supposed to be paying their own rent and their own way very, very early. So they're expected to be getting on their feet and it is very easy for people that really do want to honestly help people that are going through that process end up developing a dependency relationship with those folks because the staff at the resettlement agencies very purposely try to pull away very early on to get those folks their own feet.
“It is very easy for people that really do want to honestly help Afghans end up developing a dependency relationship with those folks.”
And you know, it was the same for us when we're living in Afghanistan. We really did need to stop depending on our teammates and actually start doing things for ourselves. And the more dependency we had on them, the harder it was for us to acculturate into Afghanistan. And the reverse is true for Afghans coming here, they need to learn that they actually are able to [00:17:00] get on that bus and navigate the city.
So if you take them to work every day, that's not really helping. So do take those, those guidance from those refugee resettlement agencies in terms of what the expectations can be for folks to be navigating their own way. And also just recognize that the level of trauma that these folks have experienced is profound.
And don't take it on as guilt that this is only caused by the U.S. The last 20 years is only the last 20 years. War in Afghanistan has been the norm for everybody; the grandfather's grandfathers can remember a day when they were a child and there was not warfare, but it's been the norm for so long.
And so they're not going to even be able to articulate to you the level of trauma they've experienced. And having gone and been airlifted out of Kabul, been stuck on bases for two months with their kids running around in these barracks, sharing bunk beds with people that they aren't related to, I mean, all of this is terribly culturally traumatizing too.
And so they're probably just be delighted to finally be in their own space. So do respect that as their space. And do allow them to be setting up home as their own family because they need to develop a sense of stability to be able to have their kids have any chance of getting through this transition to get a [00:19:00] bit of normalcy in their behavior.
“Allow Afghans to set up home as their own family, because they need to develop a sense of stability, to give their kids any chance of a bit of normalcy.”
We're just going to see a lot of irrational behavior out of both the adults and the children, as they're trying to get to that new normal. It's just been a very difficult road, getting through the process of resettlement to getting out of those spaces and in their own homes here. We just need to give people time.
Matt: We also need to be patient with the resettlement agencies. We really encouraged churches to get connected to their local resettlement agency, but realize they are under just an enormous amount of stress as they have a larger workload than they've had for the last several years.
So be patient with them, listen to them. They have a lot of wisdom in how they're doing their work. [00:20:00] And just be patient with the Afghans; they have been through so much, and realize that they're going to be going through enormous culture shock.
And so that is going to be really tough for them. Some days, they will just want to be back in Afghanistan. Some days, they are going to be so grateful for being here in the U.S. or whatever country they've come to. So just from day to day, it will, they'll have those changes. So let's be patient with.
“Be patient with the Afghans; they have been through so much, and realize that they’re going to be going through enormous culture shock.”
Fouad Masri: Thank you. So Matt and Ruth have a good word for us: patience. And ask the Lord to give you wisdom and grace in their eyes.
One of my friends wanted to host an Afghan family here in, on the east coast of [00:21:00] the United States. And he said, “Yeah, we'd love to welcome them.” Well, there were nine. It was the husband and the wife and the kids and the mother-in-law and the father and the mother.
I'm wondering maybe you can give a one or two statements on how it is to host a family, is it easy to host a family?
Ruth: If you have an Afghan family move into your home, you are their host and they're your guests. It is always going to be that way, even if maybe you're their landlord. They're going to be your guest and you their hosts. The expectations for what you give to them as a host are intense. I have sat and had a woman fanning me nonstop while I'm drinking tea, because I am the guest and they are the hosts.
“The expectations for what you give to Afghans as a host are intense. I had a woman fanning me nonstop while I'm drinking tea, because I am the guest and they are the hosts.”
I think it would be very difficult. To have that relationship, not be very, very complicated also [00:22:00] within Afghan culture, it's patron-client culture. And so you as the landlord are then the patron.
And so if something happens, one of their children needs to go to the hospital. You will be the person that then is supposed to transport them. And you're supposed to be up all night because you are the patron. So you're supposed to take care of them. So it just gets very, very complicated.
Also it's kind of difficult to picture just myself, going with my own kids internationally, like I did, it's really hard to picture how I would be able to have my kids settle down through the transition, if we were in someone else's space.
Being able to have my own space, where I can institute routines that my kids are familiar with to then help them come back to that "normal", is really important.
And [00:23:00] if a family is to live in an independent space, maybe you're a landlord of that house, but you're just the landlord of the house; you're not the host and they're not your guests.
Then they are then able to create those routines and give that stability to their children in their own space, and feel like they are the people in charge of their own home.
Crossing a bridge over spring runoff in the Hindu Kush mountains
Matt: I think just with Fouad’s hosting example – exactly nine family members – that is going to be common. And how do you accommodate the needs of three generations within your own household?
It's very difficult. And then something we haven't really touched on as much is the gender dynamics. We as foreigners with friends from Afghanistan who are also foreign foreigners there, we were outside the country and we were trying to sit [00:24:00] down at a picnic bench with them and the adults were wandering around the picnic bench trying to figure out, okay, how do I sit down at this picnic bench and not sit next to my friend's wife?
Afghan women are not going to be comfortable sitting around the house with me, as a male in the house with them, without their husband there. And likewise, it's inappropriate for me to leave my wife at the house with the Afghan man there. So you just have all kinds of dynamics that are complicated that way.
So it's really important to get them settled down into their own space where they can thrive and be close to them, but let them develop their own routines, their own independence as they live here.
“It's really important to get Afghans settled down into their own space and let them develop their own routines, their own independence as they live here.”
Ruth: So in terms of the gender dynamics, it is not okay in Afghan culture [00:25:00] for me as the woman of the house to have an unrelated or un-allowed man into my home for any length of time while my husband's not there.
So even if it was my husband's first cousin, that is considered a not allowed relationship, we're not allowed to sit next to each other in a car. We're not allowed to sit next to each other on a couch. We're not allowed to be in the house by ourselves at all for any time.
So transferring that to coming to the West, okay, yes, a lot of these families will have spent enough time around foreigners that they might not enforce those rules quite so strictly, but it is going to make things very awkward if you've got a single Afghan man or even if he's got family back in, in Kabul, alone in a home, even if it's in a separate room [00:26:00] from a female landlord. It's going to just cause problems. That could be very, very bad. Hopefully it will be fine, but it could go very, very wrong.
Fouad Masri: Thank you Matt, thank you, Ruth, for this advice.
Brothers and sisters, this is important. This urgent time for us to focus on welcoming the refugees, but there are many variables, many pitfalls that we have to be prepared for.
And it's not something that we can be like a flip a switch. "Oh yeah, we're going to welcome a family." There are major things that we have to address.
But for now I want to say thank you to Matt and Ruth, thank you so much for sharing. And thank you for going to Afghanistan and serving among the beautiful Afghan people.
Crescent Project has helped scores of communities and churches navigate the influx of Afghan refugees.
We're helping them understand Islam as a religion and the culture of the Afghan people, how to overcome language barriers, how to find housing solutions, and more. Learn more about how we can partner with you!